The dice is loaded against Indian H1-B visa holders

April 29, 2009

Now that the US government has tightened, screws on H1-B visa holders through TARP rules, its time to once again raise demand for repatriation of their social security deductions even if India does not have a bilateral treaty with the US on this.

It is a tad sad that the dice on the issue of social security deductions continues to be so heavily loaded against the India H1-B visa holders at the moment. They pay taxes but draw no social security retirement benefits in the US or even on there return in India. A totalization agreement with the Indian government as mooted at Doha meeting has still not materialized.

H1-B visa holders, it needs to be mentioned can work in the US for a maximum of six years, whereas to draw social security benefits from their US account, a worker has to out in a minimum of 10 years in the US. The only exemption is for workers who have been paying into their country’s Social Security system, however India still does not have such a system in place.

Meanwhile, the US at the moment has totalitarian agreements only with workers from 21 countries and talks are underway with a few others, including India. No one knows how long US social security money is going be available, but at present Indians working in H1-B are not eligible to get the social security benefits.

Several H1B visa holders are already laid off and may not even come back to US. What will happen to their social security contributions?

Why the media is only reporting H1-B workers taking away the jobs from US workers?


Comments

37 Responses to “The dice is loaded against Indian H1-B visa holders”

  1. US Citizen on April 30th, 2009 6:24 am

    Why are you crying that H1 visa holders are not getting their social benefits? Why don’t you go back to India and work?

  2. Citizen? on May 22nd, 2009 5:19 am

    Why US is giving H1 visas in first place? Why don’t they stop them? They need the talent and that is the reason they give H1. If they give H1 and collect social security benefits they better pay them back.

  3. truthspeaks on August 29th, 2009 10:27 pm

    most of the guys who come in h1 are not so called talent..like half of the employees of all ur outsourcing comapnies…even big outsourcing companies..they are just software coolies…used by these companies for exploitation……They are exploited..but they are very happy..u go to usa..and spoil
    the full market..now ur it companies are targetting europe..but europe wil be a bit difficult market to crack..

  4. Radhika on August 30th, 2009 10:56 pm

    You forget, its a free market, isn’t it? So let the buyer and the supllier of a service decide whether they have a match; whether the person being hired is talented or not and at what price point. How can you make a general, sweeping comment, like “they are not talented..”

  5. Rizwan on September 4th, 2009 10:58 am

    You call it coolies or whatever. Expatriate workers are a happening not only in US, there are expatriates everywhere and there are US expatriates in other countries. Doesn’t want to make a foolish argument that why don’t all US expatriates else where go back to US to find job – like someone here arguing about H1b workers in US. Remember, it is US and US companies advertise immigration to US as a gold spot. None of us jumped across border. If these are not talented, where are all above of all talents in US? why couldn’t they be replaced? So this argument doesn’t hold strong as well. Reality is these folks here on H1b are stinking working for their money as anybody else and they are trading best of their life and time in US make their life better. I am sure we are not running sweat-shops in US. If they have worked for the money and sure do have rights to their money. They are not asking for something they didn’t earn, right?

  6. Tired of Indians on September 8th, 2009 9:50 pm

    Who cares! If you are not a citizen shut the hell up. You come to the US to work at your own will. Don’t cry about not having rights when it was your choice knowing full well that you are not a citizen. Tax deductions and social security are things that you have to deal with working in America. You think I will see any of the social security benefits when I retire? Unlikely, I’m a citizen but I don’t go around crying about it. I don’t have a dependency on social security and most Americans of my generation don’t either. I honestly find Indian engineers and programmers overrated and useless workers who just come to the US to reap the rewards of a higher salary yet they contribute absolutely zero productivity. Instead of being an asset most I’ve dealt with are a hindrance with a huge ego problem. I don’t buy the argument that we lack engineers when we have some of the best universities in the world. There are a lot of talent in China and other parts of the world why only India? It’s utter crap and just another example of Corporate America cutting corners so executives can lavishly pad their lifestyle. I can keep going on about this but bottomline is if you don’t like it don’t come and work in the States. I hate it when people come to another country and complain about things they have no say in it’s just life. Deal with it don’t treat this like some sort of injustice to humanity.

  7. Radhika on September 10th, 2009 1:20 am

    Hey! You really sound like someone who is xenophobic about Indians. Such sweeping generalisations — only an Amerian can be so “juvenile” :) (Pardon my use of a ‘dumb American’ metaphor). Everybody in America is an immigrant. And we are not talking about doles here — we are talking of legitimate rights as workers!!!

  8. Indian on September 19th, 2009 4:22 pm

    GE , AIG, ,Besy Buy and so many….its started only……God Save America.

    A developed nation that depend on China and Japan for all…….

  9. Truely Indian on October 1st, 2009 11:40 pm

    FYI to those who aren’t aware of this:

    Once upon a time India was called “Golden Bird”, the english came as “East Indian Company” to do Business in India and got impressed with the prosperity and indian hospitality. They set up their shops in India and started selling goods from Britain and other European Nations. Once they built confidence with kings they started showing their true color and started Looting and exploiting India for 300 years and that is how once a prosper India was left as a poor nation at the time of Independence in 1947.

    I see the similar thing happenning now but sides have been switched, Indians are now in this position to travel to any country in the world and can impress any country with their IT Wizards, and the money which has been looted once by the Western Nations will be brought back as Remittance (reply for East India Company is Indian IT Companies). As 17th and 18th Century was known for West Dominance, then 21st will be for East.

    As far as Social Security is concerned we are not beggers, but definitely will not throw away money just like that due to some shitty law. But if you wants to live on that change amount and want to fight for it, then you know what “Keep the Change” because we indians believe in non-violence.

    We Indians are committed to do so .. If you have will then try to stop us.

    Any country at this time is dependent on 2 Countries only .. India and China. Both as the consumer of their goods and as the supplier. So Don’t try to mess with either of these otherwise dooms day will arrive early.

    Cheers ..

    Oh yeah one more thing .. If you are offended by this post .. then you know what “I DONT CARE”

    Vande Maatram (Pray to the MotherLand)

  10. strayer on October 17th, 2009 7:50 pm

    I’d like to see a mass deportation on H1bs from the US.. Let’s do this before they
    before citizens..which is what they are dying to do.

    Now here is the trick they follow: (its a dirty trick at that)

    They come over here and the first thing they do is have a kid.
    Well the kid is a citizen of this country.. so the kid can’t be asked to leave..
    So.. this automatically gives their H1b parents the status to stay in this
    country till the kid is 18.. (neat trick huh?)

    Isn’t this the ultimate strategy?

    In a very few, very few cases the family will actually fold and go back.. but
    the kid can return for higher education. (the story never ends!)

    By the way, if any of you want to go to Niagara falls.. don’t bother.

    At any given time, the crowd there is 90% East Indian..
    There are full of the moms and pops or rather grandparents of the H1bs and their children.

  11. Immigration1 on October 31st, 2009 7:37 am

    One of the reasons is local employees is not getting jobs because of foreign employees.

  12. Singh on February 14th, 2010 3:11 pm

    h1b contribute 1 billion toward SS benefits / year. I will be defintely greedy to exploit them. Take their services and kick them back.

  13. zzebie on May 21st, 2010 10:43 am

    Strayer’s statement—-’They come over here and the first thing they do is have a kid.
    Well the kid is a citizen of this country.. so the kid can’t be asked to leave..
    So.. this automatically gives their H1b parents the status to stay in this
    country till the kid is 18.. (neat trick huh?)”—-

    Do you have a legal source to back this up?Provision name, act name or any other source?Please don’t misinform people. Just by virtue of having a baby in the US, the parents are not entitled an unrestricted stay of 18 years in the US.

    Just a curious question, is your prejudice against East Indian people, or does it extend to other races as well?

  14. Kent Stingl on June 21st, 2010 11:40 pm

    As a US citizen working overseas I can see both sides of the arguement.
    Expatriate employment whether it is in the USA, Singapore, Mumbai wherever should ONLY be a need if there is a shortage of skills. By and large that is how the visa system around the world including the US operates.

    It gets emotive when the driver is cost. US expatriates are expensive and their employment is technically driven. Lower the tech spec and a cheaper solution can easily be found.

    Indians and other TCNs unfortunately are being exploited in the USA for their low cost hiring basis. Its a lose lose situation, skilled Indians do not get paid what their US counterparts are paid, but nevertheless its a lot more than in Mumbai, so will accept a better life. The US indigenes lose a job inside their own country for one reason only .. its cheaper to hire in.

    Who is to blame? Free market capitalism that’s all. Companies are looking to reduce costs, and in a fairly lax situation will of course hire the lowest cost best technical soultion. Always. Its good for business.

    Look at SCM bid process .. how does it work ? Pre-qualify the most technically acceptable vendors and then invite commericals. Lowest bid wins.

    That’s it.

    Lobby congress if you don’t like it. Having said that as a US expatriate myself and many others are now returning home becuase we have been replaced by lower cost alternatives, and without a job to return home to .. that’s been given away to a low cost H1B1 visa worker.

    Pisser? Yes.
    What to do ?

    Accept a salary cut .. that’s where this whole issue is heading. Or increase your skillset so there is no technical alternative.

    As for some of the postings, regardless of your country of origin .. as a guest worker in a host country try to show some respect, if not assimilation ?

    My 5 cents

  15. Jennifer du Pont on July 1st, 2010 12:04 pm

    Why does the bathroom at work always smell like curry?

  16. commentor on August 15th, 2010 11:15 am

    I am not sure about curry but my work place including bathroom smells like burger all the time…..

  17. American Citizen on August 22nd, 2010 11:50 pm

    I’m tired of these stinky, anti-social, poor English, fake resume Indians…

  18. Jennifer on September 22nd, 2010 1:05 pm

    I don’t care if it’s right or wrong, if it’s good for the country or not. I’m just so sick of seeing them everywhere at my job and having to work with them and figure out what they are saying behind their accents. Drives me truly insane.

  19. Sue on October 12th, 2010 9:30 am

    Wow. . .I’m reading this blog and am surprised at what I’m reading. I’m a 5th generation American citizen. My ancestors arrived on U.S. shores from Ireland, Germany, Russia and the Ukraine. We are all immigrants in this country. No one single nationality “owns” this country. I have worked over the years with many people from India. And while not all have had the same technical skills, what I will say is that all of them have enriched my life by broadening my perspective on world and cultural issues and showing me how different but alike our experiences really area as we journey through life on opposite ends of the world. A little tolerance and respect goes a long, long way.

  20. Michael on October 26th, 2010 6:05 am

    Havent yet worked with an Indian that had a work ethic, could meet deadlines, could communicate effectively (especially when under any stress) or had any idea about quality. Money is the driver with a desire to live in the West. My suspicion is that many I T companies are in reality emigration consultants. They charge high fees for visas (in the form of low salaries), then undermine US Consultancies on a price basis. However they dont deliver. I have also worked with Chinese professionals and have found that they worked hard and were on a par with any western worker. The Indians are superior at selling themselves, but I believe many organizations are waking up to the fact that apart from competing on price, they have very little to offer companies that want projects completed to a high quality, on time and on schedule.

  21. marshmallow on November 5th, 2010 3:08 pm

    I have no problem with H1 visas as long as there is a legitimate skillset shortages and should be reserved for those highly technical individuals. Most I/T H1 visa holders don’t have that special skills that you cannot find with other job applicants. The problem is that Indian mgrs hires mostly their kind and that should be allowed. I see a lot of depts in our company that are comprised of 100% Indians. Other non-white immigrant mgrs are more fair – better diversity. What happened to equal opportunity?

  22. SSSingh on November 12th, 2010 2:12 am

    No wonder the Chinese came to USA ,worked hard on the whole and kicked the a** of USA holding number One position in Supercomputing
    One day NASA will be full of Chinese Immigrants.
    Only Noodles and chopsticks no more French fries and Burgers.

    Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  23. SSSingh on November 12th, 2010 2:14 am

    Please wake up Micheal and start working on your cutting edge technologies if you can before it is too lateeeeee
    Wake up from Burger Dreams.
    Chinese are kicking your dumb *SS already

  24. US Return! on April 5th, 2011 7:49 am

    Whatever! I am so glad to be back in Indian and getting a decent salary and APPRECIATION for my work…

    I did both my Bachelor and Masters from a REPUTED U.S. University! and still got treated like … Which basically tells us that you Americans are full of …

    At the end i think it is just a big mistake to spend your time and money in a country which has NO respect for other people work…. And yes in the long run it might be beneficial for the Indians also if the US just abolishes the Stup$d green card and H1 process…. and hopefully the Indians have enough senses to just quit the west and come back!!

  25. Ken on April 19th, 2011 5:49 pm

    chain migration…. It is unpatriotic and morally wrong to hire a foreigner over us citizen at any cost. As we can’t replace our politician with best and bright politician from other country so should not we replace our workers on h1b visa

  26. ReturnedIndian on May 9th, 2011 12:19 am

    I have worked in the US as an immigrant for more than 11 years before finally returning to India. I have never had any problem with any places of work and was always treated with utmost respect where ever I worked. The first thing is that one has to gain respect with his or her demeanor at the work place. You have to maintain a little space between all the co-workers whether its US or India. Second, your quality of work should be such that nobody can question you! I was in-charge of the whole trading division systems within a year of arriving in the US.

    The problem with most of the Indians arriving in the US off-late is that they are desperate to survive with scant regard to any work-ethics or social behavior. They are always in their own silos, will always remain in their own groups, will always speak their mother tongue at work between themselves making American workers apprehensive. Same is also true of majority of the new Chinese immigrants.

    Now, the blame squarely goes to the current graduate level admission requirements of the American educational institutions. Barring a few good institutions, all the universities in America are money-hungry. They want to recruit as many foreign nationals as possible, some even fore-go GRE, GMAT requirements. The reason being that the foreigners will pay almost 3.5 times the fees that nationals and looking at the diminishing grants that these universities now receive because of the economic conditions, they don’t shy away! So its more like a Capitalist economy that is to be blamed than anything else. I pity at how the quality of education has deteriorated in graduate studies in the last 12-15 years in American institutes. Once you get a graduate degree in America, you can live there for 29 months without any problem and by that time one will always find out a way for staying further back through work visa!

    So alas, though I have worked in places that smelled either curry or burger or Chinese fried rice, i have also worked in places that did not smell at all.

    Having said that, why would I not like my SSN benefits to help me if in future when I have lived in America in ways that have been better than most of the Americans live. Only few speeding tickets and no other offense in my stay of more than 11 years. Of course I am teetotaler so DUI is out of question for me :-) .

  27. ReturnedIndian on May 9th, 2011 12:21 am

    I have worked in the US as an immigrant for more than 11 years before finally returning to India. I have never had any problem with any places of work and was always treated with utmost respect where ever I worked. The first thing is that one has to gain respect with his or her demeanor at the work place. You have to maintain a little space between all the co-workers whether its US or India. Second, your quality of work should be such that nobody can question you! I was in-charge of the whole trading division systems within a year of arriving in the US.

    The problem with most of the Indians arriving in the US off-late is that they are desperate to survive with scant regard to any work-ethics or social behavior. They are always in their own silos, will always remain in their own groups, will always speak their mother tongue at work between themselves making American workers apprehensive. Same is also true of majority of the new Chinese immigrants.

    Now, the blame squarely goes to the current graduate level admission requirements of the American educational institutions. Barring a few good institutions, all the universities in America are money-hungry. They want to recruit as many foreign nationals as possible, some even fore-go GRE, GMAT requirements. The reason being that the foreigners will pay almost 3.5 times the fees that nationals and looking at the diminishing grants that these universities now receive because of the economic conditions, they don’t shy away! So its more like a Capitalist economy that is to be blamed than anything else. I pity at how the quality of education has deteriorated in graduate studies in the last 12-15 years in American institutes. Once you get a graduate degree in America, you can live there for 29 months without any problem and by that time one will always find out a way for staying further back through work visa!

    So alas, though I have worked in places that smelled either curry or burger or Chinese fried rice, i have also worked in places that did not smell at all.

    Having said that, why would I not like my SSN benefits to help me if in future when I have lived in America in ways that have been better than most of the Americans live. Only few speeding tickets and no other offense in my stay of more than 11 years. Of course I am teetotaler so DUI is out of question for me :-) .

  28. Mr. P on May 24th, 2011 1:05 am

    Wow. I can’t claim to be unbiased as that would be disingenuous, but I think that to bash H1B’s/guestworkers isn’t cool. They are people just trying to get by. I’m 44 and going back to school for my bachelors degree, why? Eh, who knows? I likely won’t be able to be hired anywhere because of my age, but I’m not going to blame someone who is halfway around the world from their loved ones to provide for their families on my inability to get a job.

    America is the melting pot, and for that reason alone people need to stop the vitriolic text this page seems to be attracting. Peace Everyone!

  29. sandy on August 8th, 2011 7:45 am

    It should be “dice loaded against Americans”

  30. sandy on August 8th, 2011 7:53 am

    strayer on October 17th, 2009 7:50 pm : U are 100% correct.i am indian ,I saw all my fellow Indians who came here and become pregnant with in a month or 2, to get citizenship for kids.Many Indians feel PROUD to have citizen kids.
    things only Indians do in USA:
    - Misuse of return policy
    -Noni-social behaviour
    - very poor dressing
    -No respect for others,highly superior feeling.
    these are just few.
    INDIAN KIDS ARE THE MOST NUISANCE IN PUBLIC PLACES.

  31. USBRIT Citizen on September 25th, 2011 2:00 pm

    Time to stop issuing/Renewing H1B Visas to Indian IT candidates. I have worked with them all over the USA and Europe. Nine out of Ten are useless, only nod and say yes in meetings then never do assigned tasks. They live 10 in a house, cook, bring in food and smell up break area, dress like my kids when they were 5yrs old. We have 9%+ unemployment. They and their human slave Consultant companies drive down pay rates that we cannot compete as we have wives, children and mortgages here. First thing they do is get pregnant, there kids always misbehaving in restaurants, standing on chairs, running around. Live in hoards in houses and send all their money back home. As I say to the ones I hear complaining, your companies took our jobs to India, then send millions west to take what jobs we have left. Drive down salaries, destroy local communities, Look what they did to NC in the triangle, moved in by the thousands driving pay down 50% for Americans. Enough venting, go home fight for our outsourced jobs there.

  32. Ajax on November 7th, 2011 2:22 pm

    Well to all the ignorant americans, who are talking about unethical Indian workers, I have one question, why at most places, does one find that despite the technical requirements of the job, still the manager would be some dumbass, moronic,idiotic american who just can’t resist doling out some moronic buzzwords and this is the story all over USA. And all these americans who are talking about Indians coming and taking their jobs, your forefathers came from the lowest rung of the societies all across europe, of course they worked hard, but they wiped out the natives .So no one is a bigger hypocrite than these Americans who are talking crap over here. And as a matter of fact , most of the american IT professionals are nerds and are socially inept, so job is the only place where they can have some social interaction and congratulate each other for saving the world, and talk about their sorry asses getting kicked by athletes and pretty much all around the society. But then some foreign workers stepped
    in, who work much harder than these losers, thats why these losers are getting theirs panties in a twist, ‘cuz foreign workers are taking away the last place where these lowers could hide their faces and feel sorry for themselves.

  33. magicboy124 on January 31st, 2012 3:30 pm

    I know they are some ant indian people who are provoking indian sentiments dont post comments please

  34. Matrix on April 27th, 2012 5:30 pm

    It is amazing to see how people think about Indians. I would like to highlight some points which I think was brought in to attention of everyone.
    1. There are other H1B immigrants than just IT professionals.
    2. Many of Indian H1B immigrant came here to study and paid almost 3 times fees compared to citizens. (More interestingly, international students were never qualified for grants other than teaching or research assistant-ship)
    3. They lend to a job because they worked as hard for it as any citizen would do.
    4. Currently, any one have to move to different city or state for their job which is equivalent to taking someone else job away.
    5. By nature human being are competitive race who will compete for resources and betterment of life. So, if Indians are coming to US/Europe or any part of world is a part of human behavior to sustain and live better life.
    6. yes, it feels awful to give away social security money because it is not just few cents.
    7. culturally, we all are different so I think it is inappropriate to comment on someone’s habits which may be normal for his lifestyle not yours.

    Some of my thoughts:

    1. Americans who are loosing jobs are not because H1b but because there are no manufacturing units over here.
    2. Please check census data for 2000 and 2010. Approximately 40% population in US finished high school education.
    3. so in order to get this 40% people in mainstream you do not need IT jobs but needs manufacturing jobs instead.
    4. I am sure that this must be difficult time for Americans who do not have jobs but I urge you all to consider that “Free Economy” concept was brought by western country under which US has enjoyed many golden years. Now some other race is enjoying it.
    5. Indians are still 3rd or 4th largest immigrants in US. Some other countries still hold higher ranks than Indians.
    6. To the argument that Indians are cheap worker, yes we do not expect whole lot of things from life so we are satisfied with less salary than our US counterparts. Company can reduce their products prices in this way which again helps Americans to get cheaper product. So please understand that this is the cycle where you disrupt one piece and face consequences on other fronts.

    There are many other things which I can mention. but some other day.

    Peace out guys!!

  35. valid info on May 28th, 2012 2:56 pm

    always i used to read smaller articles or reviews that also
    clear their motive, and that is also happening with this paragraph which I am reading here.

  36. kkr on June 20th, 2012 3:53 am

    India just lent Europe 10bn dollars.

  37. valid on October 7th, 2012 10:45 pm

    Hey, to everyone who feels bad about this H1b thingy and working with indians etc etc, you should be lobbying in washington to ban any more legal immigration and H1b visas. Politicians and business lobyists have zero interest in immigration unless they r sure immigration has a net positive effect on the country- which I believe is true. Unfortunately the world is globalized and all the countries are trading together. When goods and services move from one place to another, people also have to move from one place to another. If you cant find job in america and feel that you are getting replaced please feel free to work in india at $500/month.

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